I’M SURE WHEN YOU HEAR THE NAME ‘JOHNNY MATHIS’ ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT COMES TO YOU MIND IS THE PHRASE ‘LOOK AT ME’ OR ‘THEY SAY…CHANCES ARE…’ IN THE 60S, THE COOL, LUSH VOICE OF JOHNNY MATHIS DEFINED LOVE BALLADS, SETTING OFF AN EXTRAORDINARY CAREER.
BUT, WHAT MANY PEOPLE DON’T KNOW IS THAT MATHIS WAS INITIALLY BROUGHT UP IN THE JAZZ ENVIRONMENT. ALSO, BACK IN THE 60S HE RECORDED A COUPLE ‘JAZZ ALBUMS’ WITH DON COSTA’S ARRANGEMENT AND PRODUCTION. THESE ARE GUARANTEED TO STUMP PEOPLE ON A ‘BLINDFOLD’ TEST. MOST RECENTLY, MR. MATHIS HAS RECORDED A NUMBER OF SONGS WITH THE SWINGING GORDON GOODWIN’S BIG PHAT BAND, AND OCCASIONALLY SITS IN ON A CONCERT OR TWO. I SAW HIM LAST YEAR AT CATALINA’S WAIL OUT ‘LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL’ AND HAD TO DO A DOUBLE TAKE THAT I WASN’T WATCHING JACKIE WILSON.
WE RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH MATHIS, DUE TO THE REISSUE OF THE 4 DISC COLLECTION OF HIS HIT SINGLES AS WELL AS THE MULTI-DISC BOX SET WHICH FEATURES EVERYTHING HE DID ON THE GLOBAL LABEL. AT FOUR SCORE YEARS, HE STILL SOUNDS WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL.
AFTER SEEING YOU WITH GORDON GOODWIN, I REALIZED THAT YOU ARE A JAZZ ARTIST AT HEART
Well, that’s how I got my start. I grew up in San Francisco and there was a club called The Blackhawk that my dad and I went to all of the time. In fact, the lady that co-owned the place became my business manager. The guy who signed me to my record contract, George Avakian, was the head of the jazz department at Columbia Records, so he was all ready for me to become the next “jazzer.”
I gave it a shot, but I softened my approach a little bit and sort of found my own niche.
HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU WERE GOING THERE? WHAT WAS THE SCENE LIKE?
I started going to the club when I was 13. San Francisco is kind of laid back and relaxed about a lot of things. As long as I kept a low profile in the club, it was no big problem that I was 13 years old. Besides, I was with my dad, and we got a chance to see every major jazz singer, pianist and person in the world. It was the most incredible revelation, and it’s exactly why I started singing.
WHICH ONES INSPIRED YOU THE MOST?
Mostly Ella (Fitzgerald) and Nat (“King” Cole). Also “B,” Billy Eckstine. They were kind of mellow and they could do it all. The songs that they sang were more sophisticated than what was on the Hit Parade at the time.
I met them all. The jazz club was very small. They would sit down and mingle with the crowd. They knew that this 13 year old kid had aspirations to sing, and they were very kind to me. Over the years some of them became good friends. Dizzy Gillespie, for instance became a good buddy of mine. People like George Shearing, Dave Brubeck and Paul Horn. Anybody that you can name jazzwise came to that club, and I got a chance to meet them, and later on after I started recording we’d have a lot of conversations. “Yeah! I remember you! You were that kid that would come in with your dad and listen to us! How did you get into that club?!?”
DID ANY OF THESE ARTISTS GIVE YOU ANY CAREER OR LIFE ADVICE?
No. Those people that I mentioned were so sophisticated and gifted that they wouldn’t even try to say something like that to you because their demeanor was almost mystical. We’d talk about all sorts of things, mostly they’d ask me about what I was doing in school. They were very concerned about me as a child. They knew that I loved their music and they knew that I was going to pursue it, but they didn’t offer any horrible advice (laughs).
HOW DID YOU GET THE BLACKHAWK GIG?
There was a buddy of mine, Virgil Gonzalez, and he had the house band there. But I went there because my dad took me, and when my dad wasn’t around my oldest brother Clem took me. We’d sneak in, sit in the back and listen; nobody would bother us.
DIDN’T GEORGE AVAKIAN HEAR YOU SING THERE.
The lady that co-owned the Blackhawk, Helen Noga, was Armenian, and was very close-knit with George Avakian. He was the head of jazz at Columbia at the time, and he used to come there. I got a gig at one of the local clubs, but it wasn’t the Blackhawk. That was a place called Ann’s 440 Club. It was a gay nightclub where the headliner was TC Jones, who was a female impersonator who eventually ended up on Broadway. I sang there from the time I was about 15-16. Nobody bothered me. It was San Francisco! Kids went everywhere. That’s where I started and that’s where George Avakian first heard me. He eventually signed me to Columbia.
HE PRODUCED ALL OF THE BIG NAMES LIKE MILES DAVIS AND DUKE ELLINGTON.
A lot of them played on my first album that was under George’s tutelage, but they didn’t use their right names! It was so funny; I’d ask “Who’s that?” and he’d say “That’s Miles.” “WHAT?!?” Miles didn’t play on it, but one who did that overjoyed me was one of the greatest players of all time, Buddy DeFranco.
THAT ALBUM WAS “A NEW SOUND IN POPULAR SONG”? SO THEY CHANGED THEIR NAMES ON THIS ALBUM
These jazz musicians had to get a gig! So, they’d say, “My name is Izack Obrayim!” That was their mentality. “Whatever!”
BESIDES YOUR MILLION SELLING POP SINGLES, YOU ALSO DID A PAIR OF VERY JAZZY ALBUMS IN THE EARLY THAT WERE ARRANGED BY DON COSTA, CALLED RAPTURE AND ROMANTICALLY. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THESE SESSIONS?
Because I was selling a lot of single records, I had a lot of opportunities to use anybody that I wanted to, as far as arrangers were concerned. And these arrangers of course talked to one another; some were busy and would say, “I can’t do it, but so and so can. I’d like you to meet him.”
Don was brilliant and one of the nicest guys in the world. He did all of the charts on the date. I’d never seen that before. I thought “Uh Oh, this is going to be awful.” But it turned out brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I do a lot of performances with symphonies throughout the country, and still to this day I do his arrangement of “Laura.” It’s just magnificent. The only thing that I was sad about my association with Don is that I was not at my best. I did a few really good things with him, but I don’t think I was very good.
WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM?
I went to a doctor, Max Jacobson, the infamous “Dr. Feelgood” more or less.(Editor’s note-this was the same man who “treated” JFK, Elvis Presley and Marilyn Monroe) He used to give me vitamin shots as he did with all of his clientele. Those “vitamin shots” were laced with Amphetamines (which I did not realize) which kept you “going” but it also made my voice sound very strange. So, all of the recordings that I did then sound very bad and strange to me. I mean, the notes were there, but they were funny sounding.
I was going to Max at the time because of my scheduling. I was doing five shows a night at the Copacabana in New York and still doing recording sessions in the daytime. So, he was giving me this stuff that kept me going, but it also ruined my interpretation of the songs that I was singing at the time.
Fortunately, it only lasted a couple of years, but I still regret it so much.
ON THOSE ALBUMS YOU INCLUDED THE INTRODUCTIONS TO A HIGH NUMBER OF THEM, WHICH IS A RARITY.
When I got to New York, I fell in with a crowd that wrote and composed music. The one that was my biggest influence was Bart Howard. Bart wrote a wonderful song that I recorded, mostly because I heard Mabel Mercer do it, and it was called “In Other Words.” But, he changed it because everyone thought it was his other song “Fly Me To The Moon.”
Bart was my savior. He was playing piano at The Blue Angel and I sang there. He lived right next door, and he was a great cook. He’d have me over; we’d rehearse the songs that I was going to sing that night at The Blue Angel, and then he would play me some of his stuff. Over the years, I think I’ve recorded over 50 of Bart’s songs because they were brilliant. They were a big part of the first few albums that I did.
YOU ALSO CHANGED LABELS AND FEEL OF YOUR SOUND YOU RECORDED FOR GLOBAL RECORDS.THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN REISSUED IN A BIG BOX SET.
Global was a record company that my business manager wanted to have because he wanted to make more money that way. The only hiccup I really had was when I went to Mercury Records, and I lost my concentration. Not so much musically, but I couldn’t find someone who could help me figure out what would best suit me at the time.
The only good stuff I did was in England, and a lot of the stuff was kind of hit and miss. I even went back to my vocal studies to learn songs in other languages. I was very because Miles Davis and his best pal took me to see a film called “Orfeo Negro,” and so I eventually recorded every song from that film in Portuguese. I was a student of voice and those were the kind of things that I did in my lessons. I transferred them to my professional career.
On the “Ole’” album I tried the “Bachianas Brasileiras” and when I listen to It now I can’t believe it! “Ooh! Oh! AAWW!” (laughs)
THAT’S CLASSIC! HOW DiD YOU MEET UP WITH GORDON GOODWIN FOR HiS ALBUMS?
I must have had 100 musical conductors in my life; some of them lasted a week, some longer. But there are some who influence me so much, and Gordon is the top. I don’t remember how we got together, but boy, am I glad we did. His musicianship oozes out of him; he doesn’t know how to do anything badly in music, and he can do anything.
I’ve been influenced by him greatly; mostly by his work ethic. He works very hard, and he’s also introduced me to some of his pals. I sing with his Big Phat Band a lot. He does a few club dates around town in LA, and he’ll say, “Come on, sing a song!” and I’ll go up there.
He also does a lot of charity, too. His sax player, Eric Marienthal, has a charity that’s very close to his heart (editor: it’s called High Hopes and they work with people suffering from head injuries.), so we do that once a year.
WHEN YOU SING WITH GOODWIN’S BIG PHAT BAND, YOU SEEM AT HOME
Yes! That happens occasionally. That happened also when I recorded with Tommy Bell, for instance. Tommy didn’t want me to sing; he said, “I want you to sound like you’re talking.That’s the quality of your voice that I like the most.” So, there are 2-3 people along the way that for some reason we get along musically better and more comfortably. It’s always a plus for musicians when they sound comfortable in their efforts.
WHAT WOULD TODAY’S JOHNNY MATHIS TELL THAT YOUNG KID, OR ANY YOUNG VOCALIST, JUST STARTING OUT?
I wish that more people today, from what I’ve been listening to, would have the opportunity that I had to study and learn their craft as much as they can before they get thrown into the frame where they have to “perform” all of the time and they only have this one little quality about their music, and then they are stuck after that.
DO YOU THINK THAT’S A MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TODAY’S SINGERS AND THE ONES FROM YOUR GENERATION?
Absolutely. I have had to be able to work in the studio with people like Bernstein and Leontyne Price, Beverly Sills or the one I really love, Barbara Cook.
WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MOTIVATION IN LIFE? IS THERE A PHILOSPHY BOOK OR RELIGION THAT KEEPS YOU GOING?
You know, my dad was my best pal and he was the best friend I ever had. He was also the most wonderful person I’ve known my whole life. He had a most wonderful countenance about himself, and he was very grateful for all of the good things that had happened to him in his life. Mostly for his children-seven kids, you know! He was grateful for my mom. My mom was an angel, and she stood by while my dad and I pushed through this musical career. My dad is the one I wanted to emulate, and he was a nice guy!
SO, THERE ARE A FEW SIDES OF JOHNNY MATHIS THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN BEFORE. IT IS COMFORTING TO KNOW THAT ONE OF THE GREATEST POP VOCALISTS OF ALL TIME HAS THE HEART OF A JAZZER, STILL SINGING AND SWINGING TO THIS VERY DAY. YOU MAY THINK THAT IT’S NOT FOR ME TO SAY, BUT CHANCES ARE, HIS WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL CAREER WILL MAKE YOU MISTY-EYED FOR SEEING HIM SOME TIME SOON IN A LOCAL JAZZ VENUE.