ONE OF THE MOST REPEATED LESSONS ANY SAGE OF JAZZ WILL TELL YOU IS TO “DEVELOP YOUR OWN VOICE.” MANY ASPIRE, FEW ATTAIN. EVEN MORE DIFFICULT IS TO THEN DEVELOP A UNIQUE STYLE AND APPROACH TO MUSIC, AN HONOR GIVEN TO VERY FEW. ALTO SAXIST OLIVER LAKE IS ONE OF THE LAST JAZZ GIANTS LEFT WHO DEVELOPED AN IMMEDIATELY IDENTIFIABLE SOUND, AND THEN USED IT TO CREAT A WHOLE NEW GENRE WHEN HE FORMED (WITH JULIUS HEMPHILL, HAMIETT BLUETT AND DAVID MURRAY) THE GROUND BREAKING “WORLD SAXOPHONE QUARTET.” HE HAD AN IMPRESSIVE CAREER BOTH BEFOR AND AFTER THAT BAND, AND EVEN NOW PUTS OUT A WIDE PALATTE OF SOUNDS RANGING FROM FREE FORM TO HIS MOST RECENT STRAIGHTAHEAD ALBUM WITH HIS ORGAN QUARTET “6 AND 3”.
WE RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH THE CHEERFUL AND ENERGETIC MASTER TO LEARN ABOUT THINGS PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
HOW DID YOU FIRST GET INVOLVED WITH MUSIC?
I was first in the drum and bugle corps. I played the cymbals in the marching band. It wasn’t anything like trap drumming; it was more like stage drums and cymbals in a marching band.
HOW DID YOU GET HOOKED ON ALTO SAX AND JAZZ?
While I was in that marching band there were a lot of young aspiring jazz musicians in the band. They really piqued my interest in wanting to play the saxophone. I think that maybe the first things I heard were by Charlie Parker and Paul Desmond. Those were the first two alto sax players that I remember.
YOU THEN GOT INVOLVED WITH THE B.A.G. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS BEHIND THAT?
That was a period during the so-called “Black Revolutionary” and “Black Power” times, and a lot of the impetus for it was self-determination. There were a lot of groups and black artists across the country who started organizations to determine their own destiny, and we were one of the groups that started in St. Louis. What was unique about us was that we had all of the arts incorporated in one group. We had music, dance, poetry…we had visual arts. Everything was involved in that particular group. Some of the other groups across the country were dedicated to singular arts. The AACM in Chicago was made up of all musicians, but our group was unique in that we had all of the art forms covered in that one particular group.
BESIDES MUSIC, DON’T YOU ALSO DO PAINTING AND POETRY?
That’s right, and I’d like to think of the Black Artist Group as my school for that, as during the course of a month during that time, one week I might be accompanying a poet, the next week I might be writing music for a theatre piece, the next week writing for a big band. So, I look at the Black Artist Group as my school, and I did do visual arts when I was in high school, so all of this became a part of what I had been doing throughout my career.
HOW DID YOU GUYS INITIALLY START UP WITH SOUL NOTE AND BLACK SAINT?
I moved to New York in 1974 and we were playing on the Lower East Side in the Village with a lot of people in the “loft scene” going on at that particular time. The Black Saint Italian guy, Giovanni Bonandrini was the owner at that time and he had heard of us and the World Saxophone Quartet, with David Murray, Julius Hemphill and Hamiet Bluiett. He started recording all of the guys who were in that movement in the downtown scene at the time.
He recorded a lot of people. He was very prolific at that particular time. Now, they release box sets from that period.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT LABEL WAS SO POPULAR?
(Laughs) I don’t know how popular we were. They were the happy few that purchased those albums! When you look at the percentage of people who are listening to music that is called jazz, at one point I think it was as high as four or five percent. Now, it’s one or two percent, so I guess we were popular among that happy few.
WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS BEHIND THE WORLD SAXOPHONE QUARTET?
Actually, each one of us had our own individual groups and Kid Jordan, a saxophone player from New Orleans came to New York and heard each one of our groups and invited us all to New Orleans for a concert, but he couldn’t bring all of our individual groups. So, he asked the four of us, Hemphill, Murray, Bluiett and myself to come down and play in New Orleans with a New Orleans rhythm section. We did that first concert, and the reaction was so far beyond any of us could have imagined. When we came back to New York we said that we have to keep the group together. But, neither one of us could decide who would play piano, bass or drums. We had all sorts of arguments and then, I don’t remember who it was, but one of us said, “Look, let’s just do it with the four saxes.” That’s what started the World Saxophone Quartet.
We got pretty popular. We lived up to our name. We travelled all over the world and we had some very strong recordings that were able to sell a lot of albums at that time. We toured extensively for many years. That group is 37 years old. The Ellington album was our highest selling one.
DID YOU EVER WONDER WHY YOU FINALLY GOT POPULAR AND ASK YOURSELVES “WHY ARE WE FINALLY MAKING MONEY AT JAZZ?”
We didn’t ask it exactly that way (laughs). But, it was unique at that particular time. No one had really done that in the genre that we were playing in. There were saxophone quartets, like classical ones, but none like ours. The fact that Julius Hemphill, who was such a creative and wonderful composer, was writing most of the music for us, we had a unique sound and unique in the fact that it was a saxophone quartet. Also, each individual in the WSQ was a very strong individualist, yet we made it work together.
After Julius Hemphill died, we just added one other player from time to time. Arthur Blythe was part of the group, and James Carter later became part, so it just evolves. James Spaulding was also part of the group-a TREMENDOUS sax player. Currently, the group is still together, b but we’ve been taking a break for the last couple of years. But we’ll get back together later on.
THAT’S BRINGS UP ANOTHER POINT. DURING THAT TIME IT SEEMED THAT FREER JAZZ WAS GETTING A LOT OF POPULARITY, WITH ARHTUR BLYTHE AND HENRY THREADGILL EVEN GETTING CONTRACTS WITH MAJOR LABELS LIKE COLUMBIA. THEN, IT SEEMED LIKE THE BOTTOM FELL OUT. WHAT HAPPENED?
I can’t answer it specifically except to say that things go in cycles and that was one of the things that went through the cycle at that particular time. Hopefully it will come around again, but I can’t put a specific handle on why.
IT SEEMS THAT THESE GUYS LIKE MURRAY AND CHICO FREEMAN DON’T PUT OUT MUCH NEW MATERIAL ANY MORE.
Well, for that reason I put out my own record label now, Passing Through, which I’ve had for about 30 years. I’ve been putting things out 1-2 cds a year on my label, as well as recording for other labels as well. The group that I play with, Trio 3 with Andrew Cyrille and Reggie Workman has been recording on Intact Records based in Switzerland for the last 10-15 years.
HOW DID YOU GET IN TOUCH WITH REGGIE WORKMAN?
Oh, we were hiring each other and playing in each other’s group all the time here in New York. He’s such a strong player and I’ve always been such an admirer of his since when I first heard him with Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers years ago. And then, when I had the opportunity to play with him, we just never stopped because we both fell in love with each other’s playing and then he became a part of my group and I was a part of his group. Eventually we decided to form a cooperative group called Trio3 with Andrew Cyrille, myself and Reggie.
DID HE TELL YOU ANY COLTRANE STORIES?
Oh, yeah! But you’ll have to talk to him to get those (laughs)
YOU HAVE A STATEMENT ON YOUR WEB SITE “IT’S ALL ABOUT CHANGES.” WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
I think it’s a double-edged sword. A lot of things change, but a lot of things remain the same. For me, I like having my saxophone with different accompaniments. Like, playing with the Sax Quartet, with strings. I recently did a collaboration with a string quartet called Flux. I just did a gig with them last week. I have a 17 piece big band that I work with, and then there’s the new cd with the organ quartet. I play solo in a solo context, I write things for orchestras. So, those kind of changes were kind of what I was referring to; gravitating towards things that I love to do and then making it happen.
YOU HAVE DONE DUETS WITH PIANISTS AS WELL
Yes, with Donal Fox and Borah Bergman.
YOU HAVE SO MANY PROJECTS. DO PEOPLE COME TO YOU OR DO YOU SEEK THEM OUT?
It works both ways, but in those two particular cases both of those pianists approached me and asked if I’d be interested in doing a duo with them. The ideas come from other musicians as well as ideas that I come up with. It was my idea to work with the string quartet, composing for them and working with them.
HOW ABOUT THE REGGAE ALBUMS?
That was a lot of influence from my wife. She’s from Guyana, South America, and that’s the kind of music they listen to there; reggae. At that particular time I was listening to steel pans and heard this great steel pan player , Lyndon Achee, who’s from Trinidad but now lives in New York. I was attracted to that sound and was listening to a lot of reggae and steel pans, and wanted to incorporate that into something with my saxophone sound. I had a group called the Oliver Lake Steel Quartet for several years. We did a couple of cds as well.
YOU’RE ONE OF THE LAST OF THE SAX PLAYERS TO HAVE A UNIQUE SOUND. WAS THAT SOMETHING CONSCIOUS THAT YOU STROVE FOR?
I think that it goes with the tradition of the music. When you put on a Coltrane cd, record, album or whatever you want to call it (laughs) and you play one note you know who it is. If you put on Miles Davis, after 1-2 notes you know who it is. So, for me, coming up one of the main things about this music was to have your own sound. It was something that was in my consciousness when I was practicing. While developing, I felt that I had to have my own voice and my own sound; that ended up being a part of me.
That goes back to the World Saxophone Quartet. Each one of those musicians in that group had their own very distinct sound. Sound is one of the main reasons I hire people for the different ensembles that I’ve had over the years. It’s generally not what or how they’re playing; for me it’s what the sound is. I mean, when I think of Reggie Workman, I think about SOUND. The sound that he gets from his bass is so unique. One note, and you know it’s Reggie Workman playing that bass. So, sound is a very important thing in this thing that we call jazz and today I’m fortunate to feel that I do have my own distinct sound.
WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET THAT DISTINCT SOUND?
I don’t know if I can put that into words. A lot of it is what you’re thinking while you’re developing and it happens while practicing the instrument. It can be something that you’re consciously developing; a thought that you’re holding in your mind to have your own unique sound. And of course the physical part of it; the setup, the mouthpiece, the reed and things like that play a part. But it’s transcendent; all the instruments are that way. There are people who play the piano and you put one piano player down and he plays a few notes, and then you have another piano player on the same piano but there are two different sounds.
YOU ALWAYS SEEM TO BE DESCRIBED AS “AVANT GARDE” OR “FREE JAZZ.” WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF THOSE TERMS?
Well, I’m not excited about either one of them! I really relate to Duke Ellington in that aspect when he said “There’s good music and then there’s bad music.” I think of what I’m doing as good music. When you put those labels on the music it really shuns a lot of people away from that music. There are people who will say, “Oh, I don’t want to listen to free jazz. I don’t listen to avant garde.” And, they never give you a chance and hear what you’re doing.
“Avant Garde” means “ahead of your time.” I always like to think of myself as being contemporary. I am now. I want to be dealt with NOW. I’m not ahead of my time; I’m right now and contemporary. I’m today, so deal with me today. Don’t deal with me after I’m gone (laughs).
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR DREAM BAND TO PLAY IN?
I’ve always wanted to do some work with Cecil Taylor. It’s never happened, but it’s still a possibility. He’s one of the players that I’ve always wanted to play with, but we’ve never had the opportunity.
WHAT KEEPS YOU MOTIVATED MENTALLY AND SPIRITUALLY?
Having a great family. My wife is a tremendous influence and inspiration. I have great kids. Family is one of the main things for me.
THE ETERNAL QUALITIES OF ALWAYS LEARNING FROM OTHER PEOPLE, ALWAYS BROADENING HORIZONS AND USING THE LOVE OF FAMILY AS AN INSPIRATION IMMEDIATELY CONFIRMS OLIVER LAKE’S MAIN ARGUMENT, THAT HE IS NOT “AHEAD” OF TIME, BUT “ON” TIME, SINCE THESE ARE CHARACTER TRAITS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED DOWN FROM OUR ETERNAL GOD. LAKE’S MUSIC AND VISION IS AN INSPIRATION TO ALL FANS OF MUSIC THAT IS SIMPLY TERMED, AS ELLINGTON FAMOUSLY SAID, “GOOD.”