ONE OF THE PREMIER HARD BOP PIANISTS, GEORGE CABLES, HAS CARVED OUT A CAREER AS NOT ONLY ONE OF THE MOST RELIABLE SIDEMAN (FOR THE LIKES OF JOE HENDERSON AND FREDDIE HUBBARD) BUT HAS SET THE STANDARD AS A LEADER, BE IT IN TRIO OR LARGER FORMATS. COMING TO SMOKE CLUB IN NEW YORK APRIL 9, CABLES LAYS DOWN THE LAW WITH HIS TEAM OF CRAIG HANDY/TS-FL, ALEXANDER CLAFFY/B AND JEROME JENNINGS/DR.
I HAVE SEEN HIM PERFORM LEADING HIS OWN TRIO, GOING SOLO AND BEING THE ANCHOR LEG FOR GROUPS SUCH AS HIS CURRENT BAND THE COOKERS, A NAME THAT ACCURATELY DESCRIBES HIS APPROACH TO MUSIC.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH MR. CABLES, AND LIKE HIS MUSIC, THE CONVERSATION FLOWED EASILY
WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED PLAYING, YOUR BANDMATES AS A YOUTH WERE BILLY COBHAM AND STEVE GROSSMAN. THAT’S A HEAVY NEIGHBORHOOD!
I had been studying the piano before that
But, when we started to play together, we were in a band called The Jazz Samaritans. It was a neighborhood band with Billy Cobham, Bernard Scavella, and Leroy Barton Jr, whose father was the first black union official in Local 802. He helped us get into the union. There was also bassist Clint Houston, who pianist Joanne Brackeen liked to play with
After I graduated High School, some of these guys from our church heard us and said, “you guys sound like real jazz musicians”. We all started giving each other advice, like “Cables, you need to learn your standards”
We’d get tidbits of information like “Miles Davis always plays from the fifth”. We weren’t sure what that meant, but we could imagine.
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“We’d get tidbits of information like “Miles Davis always plays from the fifth”. We weren’t sure what that meant, but we could imagine”
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WHAT DID YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT MEANT
It basically meant that he was inverting the chords. I still don’t know if that is true. (laughs) Instead of playing I III V, we would start on the Vth. But who knows if he really thought that way
There was an organization called Jazz Interaction, and when we played there, we met different people, like Larry Coryell who had just come from Seattle, and Steve Grossman who was from another band. We were in Queens, and he was from Long Island, and we got to be friends.
At some point Billy had to go into the army. He was clever, lucky and smart. He ended up being stationed at the Brooklyn army terminal with the band there, which was great.
During boot camp, which was in Fort Dix, New Jersey, he became a colonel’s orderly and was able to get weekends off! During boot camp! He’d take the time to go off and play with Billy Taylor at the Hickory House
Lenny White lived near us, and he’d come by my base and play with me and Steve. We played a lot in my basement
When I first met Steve, he was playing alto sax. He’d tell me “This is my George Coleman lick. This is my Eric Dolphy lick.” But he had also transcribed a lot of Freddie Hubbard solos
He was very advanced.
When we met, Steve, Lenny, Clint and myself would get together and play in my basement. Sometimes we’d play wedding receptions or go to jam sessions; just play together and learn together
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“the band that was a consistent baptism by fire was when I got with Art Blakey”
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WAS THERE A BAND OR MUSICIAN THAT GAVE YOU A “BAPTISM BY FIRE?
When I was learning with the Samaritans, it was true, as I was learning with Billy and Clint.
Roy Haynes used to come down and listen to us because the trombone player was his nephew
But the band that was a consistent baptism by fire was when I got with Art Blakey
A guy, Jim Harrison, produced different events for me, Lenny and Clint to do rhythm section work at Slug’s on Saturday afternoons. There were three trumpets, three altos in different settings with a rhythm section backing up. He got us to do Woody Shaw and Booker Ervin.
Woody liked us, so he got Lenny, me and Jackie McLean in 1968. In early 1969 he called me and said Blakey wanted to start a band with new people, and he was just starting to play with him.
So, I go to the gig at Slugs. No rehearsal! (laughs)
It was Billy Harper, Woody, Buster Williams on bass, and Bu (Blakey) on drums. There was no rehearsal, and here we are-BOOM! That was a baptism by fire!
I didn’t even know what we were going to play! We started with some of Woody’s pieces; we did “The Moontrane” almost every night. We also did a couple of Buster’s pieces.
I seemed to have a lot of baptisms by fire, jumping in with Sonny Rollins was another one.
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“It was Billy Harper, Woody, Buster Williams on bass, and Bu (Blakey) on drums. There was no rehearsal, and here we are-BOOM!”
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HOW WAS THAT SO?
It was with Buster Williams and Tootie Heath on drums. Freddie Hubbard recommended me to Sonny Rollins.
I got this call on the phone, and the voice said “Is this George Cables? This is Sonny Rollins”
I said “Who?” as I didn’t believe him. (laughs)
Sonny probably wondered why a pianist wouldn’t know who he was, but he told me that I’d better believe him. It was too good to be true
He asked me to meet him at a place on Spring Street. They had a basement where we could rehearse
I knocked on the door, and could hear this big saxophone playing downstairs. He answered the door; this was the first time I’d ever seen him in person
It wasn’t a rehearsal as much as an audition; just Sonny Rollins and me
He took me over to the piano, sat down and asked “Do you know ‘Love Letters’ in C”? I said “No”, and he put the sheet music on the piano, so we went through it. He then said “Let’s try D flat”, so we did that, and then “Night and Day” in E flat, and I’m thinking now that I’m home free, as I know this one.
But then he says, “Let’s play it in E major”, and I did it. He seemed impressed, and I was trying to be cool but I could tell that I had a smile from ear to ear.
That was definitely a trial by fire.
The next time that we got together was with Buster and Tootie and we worked on pieces together. This was also in 1969 and went to California from September to August. Those dates are burned in my memory
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“You talk about making and impression and intimidating you-Jackie Byard would sit down and be playing the history of the piano. And when he was done, he’d reach under the piano, pull out an alto sax and start playing that!”
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DID ANYONE EVER INTIMIDATE YOU?
Because I was so young, I always felt like I was playing catchup. Everyone I played with was already immersed in this music, but it was all new to me.
When I went to The High School of Performing Arts , which is now La Guardia School.
That’s where I met some friends that got me acquainted with jazz, and they brought me along. I got the basic definition of improvisation and learned how to improvise.
I was introduced to the music of Thelonious Monk, Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five” and Art Blakey.
So went home and noodled around to find some things to play.
My high school friends gave me some guidance.
Luckily, in New York, the legal age for going into bars was 18, so I was able to go to places like The Five Spot and see Thelonious Monk, who made such a big impression on me. I’d see him for months at a time, and then came Charlie Mingus.
And there wouldn’t be just one band. Mose Allison might be playing opposite Monk, and Mal Waldron would be doing that with Mingus, who had the pianist Jackie Byard
You talk about making and impression and intimidating you! Jackie Byard would sit down and be playing the history of the piano. And when he was done, he’d reach under the piano, pull out an alto sax and start playing that!
If that didn’t inspire you, it would intimidate you! It would do one or the other
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“If (Jackie Byard) didn’t inspire you, it would intimidate you! It would do one or the other”
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WHEN YOU SAW MINGUS OR MONK, DID YOU EVER GO UP AND TALK TO THEM?
No. I never had the nerve to go up and talk to Mingus, especially when you think about his personality!
And Monk! He actually came up to me one time when I was working with Max Roach. He came out to the Club Baron, where we were playing. Afterwards, we went to Max’s house, but I never spoke directly to Monk, but Max told me that he really liked my playing. That kind of made my year. (chuckles)
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(Dexter Gordon) realized he had left a rag in his horn! Neither we or the audience even noticed! That’s how big his sound was”
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YOU’RE KNOWN FOR KNOWING JUST ABOUT EVERY STANDARD. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY FEEL THAT YOU’VE “GOT” A SONG AND CAN DO WITH IT ANYTHING THAT YOU LIKE?
It still takes a lot of time.
And I don’t know every song; that’s an illusion! (laughs)
When you’re starting to learn a piece, you don’t learn them one by one. There are things that happen in one piece that happens in many other pieces in terms of the structure or progression.
So, when you see something in a song, you know that you’re going to see it again in another piece. But still, each piece is unique, so it takes awhile.
I will look at a piece, and I’ll have a head start because I see some things that are common to other pieces.
**Some pieces take longer. So I will spend a whole day going back, over and over it, going inside and out to learn it.
I like to embellish or change the piece a bit to make it my own. That’s a bid deal for me. I want to discover the piece and then see what I can do to bring my voice to it.
It may take anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days.
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“I will spend a whole day going back, over and over it, going inside and out to learn it”
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MOST JAZZ FANS SEE A STAR IN A CLUB ONCE A YEAR, AND THEN WAIT FOR THEM TO COME BACK. YOU’VE SPENT NIGHT AFTER NIGHT FOR YEARS WITH ROLLINS, HUBBARD, GORDON, PEPPER AND HENDERSON. WHAT DO YOU SEE ON A DAILY BASIS THAT THE AVERAGE FAN MISSES?
Each one was different, but they all had their own voices.
Dexter had a word that taught you what was important in each song, which was “concept”
Each person had their own personality and their own concept in their approach to music.
There were some things that were important to Art Pepper that I still carry with me
In his approach to a ballad, I do it all the time.
For Art, when playing a ballad, you never, ever, ever EVER double up and bounce around. NEVER! You play the ballad!
One time we were playing, and the bassist played a couple quick passing notes, and Art got on his case. “Don’t you ever do that again!” (laughs)
With Freddie. , I was always amazed, because it always seemed like Freddie could do anything at any given time
He had issues with his chops later on
All of these guys had their own point of view and their own approach.
There were some things that crossed over, and they had some of the same ideas about different things. But they all had their own personality and thoughts on what was important to them.
Max Roach was a trial by fire, as he was a disciplinarian, but he was also as warm as a person could be. Everyone is multi-layered, but they all have a major concept that overrides everything.
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“Dexter (Gordon) had a word that taught you what was important in each song, which was “concept”
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YOU FORMED A LONG STANDING TRIO WITH TONY DUMAS AND ART PEPPER BEFORE YOU ALL JOINED IN WITH ART PEPPER. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR A TRIO LIKE THAT TO GET COMPLETELY IN SYNC WITH EACH OTHER?
We were already sort of like minded playing this music
It’s not an academic thing; it’s more just getting close to each other. Sometimes it’s just a natural thing that happens
When you start playing with each other, you realize sometimes right away, that things that happen just pull you in together. Sometimes it’s instant, because of similar musical experiences, or who you’ve been influenced by.
It may take a minute to adjust to some people. It usually happens pretty quickly because you want to be in tune with each other.
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“For Art (Blakey) , when playing a ballad, you never, ever, ever EVER double up and bounce around. NEVER! You play the ballad!”
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OF ALL OF THE HORN PLAYERS THAT YOU’VE BEEN WITH, WHICH MUSICIAN IMPRESSED YOU THE MOST WITH THE SIZE OF THEIR SOUND?
Sonny Rollins for sure.
One time we were in San Francisco at The Workshop. The setup was a piano trio with the bass and drums behind me. Sonny was in back of me.
I’m playing some song, and I’m saying to myself “Man, I wish he would just stop blowing in my ear”, and when I turned around, he was on the other side of the stage! (laughs)
I think that it’s the older saxophonists that really have that kind of sound, and to whom its really important.
Dexter Gordon also had a big sound.
One time we were at The Keystone Corner. At this set, Dexter kept looking into his saxophone, and I’m thinking “What the heck is going on?” cause everything seems to be going on just fine.
After, he realized he had left a rag in his horn! Neither we or the audience even noticed! That’s how big his sound was
A guy who plays like that now is Eric Alexander. He’s got a big sound
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I’m playing some song, and I’m saying to myself “Man, I wish (Sonny Rollins) would just stop blowing in my ear”, and when I turned around, he was on the other side of the stage! (laughs)
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ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, HOW ABOUT PEOPLE WITH A SMALL SOUND
Towards the end of his career, Freddie was getting weak, and his lip was having problems. When I was playing with him in the 1970s, he was UNBELIEVABLE. He could play anything; if he thought of it, he would play it. Any high note.
On my record Cablesvision, he played “Birdlike” just after coming from the dentist and having a root canal. If you listen to that track, you’d be calling me a liar if I told you that. He nailed it.
If Freddie had a trumpet player sit in, whoever it was, he had this competitive spirit that if someone would do something, he’d have to out do them
He could play high notes, but hat wasn’t his thing. He wasn’t a Jon Faddis kind of guy, but if Faddis was playing, Freddie would go up there with him and past him. There was a time when Freddie practiced 8 hours a day. I don’t know how you can do that.
HOW ABOUT JOE HENDERSON?
He had a small sound. He used a rubber mouthpiece, but he was an expert of using the microphone. He used the microphone to amplify his sound
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“Larry Willis used to tell me ‘Don’t try to play everything that you know’”
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DID ANY OF THESE GUYS GIVE YOU IMPORTANT CAREER OR MUSICAL ADVICE?
Woody Shaw told me some advice that Sonny Rollins had given him. He told him “Don’t believe your press clippings”
Larry Willis used to tell me “Don’t try to play everything that you know”
As I said before, Dexter Gordon gave me that great advice about having a concept when you perform. That is something that I live by.
Find your own voice. If you’re going to play a piece, you need to learn to make It your own
Joe Henderson would also do this in a way. When you look at piece, look at the chords and make little notes. Not to remind him of what the chords were, but to see what those chords meant. How am I going to approach this chord?
When I look at a piece and try to learn it, I want to find what it’s about, and what it means. How am I going to approach, and how can I make this “war house” sound original? How can I make it come to life for me?
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“Find your own voice. If you’re going to play a piece, you need to learn to make It your own”
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YOU SAID YOU GREW UP IN THE CHURCH. IS THERE PRESENTLY ANY RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY OR BOOK THAT IS YOUR MORAL COMPASS?
The church was important to me.
I’m sort of an ecumenicist, and a deist in a way; just be the best person I can be. Be responsive to my surroundings
Everything is spiritual; Everything is holy, everything you touch. There is no “secular”; everything is sacred
There is a book, The Way Of All Flesh (By Samuel Butler) which helped me see and understand the shifting values and points of view in this world.
Things go from generation to generation, or skip a generation, and then we go back. This world seems like we go back and forth like a pendulum. But you have to remain centered.
And then you have Shakespeare, “To Thine own self be true, and it must follow, as nigh and day, thou canst not then be false to any man”
That’s how to live.
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“Everything is spiritual; Everything is holy, everything you touch. There is no “secular”; everything is sacred”
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GEORGE CABLES’ LATEST ALBUM, I HEAR ECHOES,REFLECTS THE RICH REFLECTIONS OF A MAN WHO’S LEARNED FROM THE BEST AND IS PASSING IT ON TO NOT ONLY TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF MUSICIANS, BUT TO A NEW GENERATION OF LISTENERS.WHETHER SEEING HIM AT SMOKE OR THROUGH HIS OWN CATALOGUE, IT IS AN EDUCATION WORTH RECEIVING