FEW ARTISTS HAVE AS STRONG A BIG BAND JAZZ PEDIGREE AS TED NASH. HIS TROMBONIST FATHER AND ALTO SAXIST UNCLE WERE BIG NAMES IN THE SWINGING SESSION DAYS OF HENRI MANCINI AND LES BROWN.
DURING AN ERA WHEN MOST JAZZ ARTISTS WERE PERFORMING IN SMALLER GROUPS, TED NASH OPTED TO USE HIS ALTO SAX IN LARGER SETTINGS, PLAYING FOR LUMINOUS BAND LEADERS INCLUDING QUINCY JONES, GERRY MULLIGAN, DON ELLIS AND MEL LEWIS. SINCE THEN, HE’S BEEN PART OF THE FAMOUS SAX SECTION OF WYNTON MARSALIS’ HERALDED JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER ORCHESTRA, WHERE HE HAS CONTRIBUTED MANY COMPOSITIONS AND ARRANGEMENTS.
HIS OWN CAREER TOOK A BIG TURN WHEN HIS AMBITIOUS PRESIDENTIAL SUITE WON A GRAMMY AWARD. THE ALBUM, WHICH INCLUDED INSPIRING SPEECHES BY THE LIKES OF JFK, FDR, RONALD REAGAN AND WINSTON CHURCHILL, WAS A FASCINATING TAPESTRY OF MUSIC AND INSPIRATION.
WHILE BEST KNOWN FOR HIS BIG BAND WORK, NASH HAS ALSO PUT OUT SOME INTRIGUING SMALL GROUP PIECES, NAMELY THE MANCINI PROJECT, AND A TRIBUTE TO UNHERALDED BEBOP PIANIST HERBIE NICHOLS.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH MR. NASH, WHO WAS ABLE TO GIVE A MULTI-GENERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE OF THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE OF JAZZ.
It’s awesome when he comes up on stage. I love that.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM YOUR DAD AND UNCLE WHILE GROWING UP?
I learned that you must do something that you feel passionate about and makes you happy. I would see my dad come home from work. He was a jovial guy and clearly talented; he found a thing that he loved to do and was good at, and more than being interested in the actual playing or the technique behind it, I just saw a guy who did what he loved. That’s been with me since I was a small child.
Both my uncle and father were jazz musicians, although they both settled into the studios at an early point in their careers. I felt that was their direction, especially for my uncle (Ted) who had his sights on the studios when he was very young during the 40s.
They both began in jazz and ended up doing commercial music, so that’s what I grew up with. By the time I was 18 I would get calls for record dates and commercial music. But I did the opposite; I moved to New York and pursued jazz. For me, New York was the center of the jazz world at that time.
Either of them could have said “Hey, what are you doing? You’re crazy! You have a great opportunity here in Los Angeles and follow in our steps.” But they didn’t, they said, “If this is what you want to do, then we’re behind you.” Both my father and my mother (who was also a jazz musician) were very supportive of me. They both quietly hoped I would stay in LA, but when they saw that I was so they gave me their blessings. My dad was very happy.
ANOTHER DECISION YOU SEEMED TO HAVE MADE WAS TO EMPHASIZE PLAYING IN A BIG BAND CONTEXT, SOMETHING RARELY DONE SINCE THE FUSION 70s.
It was more of a natural thing, not as much a strong choice as those opportunities kept coming up.
445I love playing in a small band, and the amount of exposure and having to improvise for a longer time. But the big band scene was different when I became a musician than the swing era, but my first gigs were with big bands, and with five saxes in a big band there’s certainly more work than with a small group. With a small band, you’re either very lucky to get picked to be in the band, or you form your own.
That’s what I’ve done over the years. But, it just keeps coming back for me to play with these wonderful musicians that happen to be in a big band, whether it’s the Mel Lewis band (which I was with for 9 years) or Gerry Mulligan.
So as much as I’d say that there were times that I resisted it because I felt like I initially set out to be a small band player, but these big band opportunities kept coming back, but still in some strange way resisting it.
My jazz at Jazz at Lincoln Center has turned that around. Although I had fears in the beginning with them because I thought it would be focused more on repertory and less on new music, it’s really shifted. Now, we do a lot of our own personal stuff and our own arranging. I’ve done 60-70 charts for the band.
I’ve realized that there’s so much in a big band for an opportunity to be creative, that I have a new embracing feeling of it. It’s not how I felt a few years ago, as it’s now tied to my composing and arranging.
IT SEEMS THAT BECAUSE OF THE JALC ORCHESTRA, YOU ARE ABLE TO PUT OUT ALBUMS LIKE THE PRESIDENTIAL SUITE (WHICH WON A GRAMMY)
JALC, and Wynton specifically, have commissioned many new pieces to be composed and performed, premiered and toured by the orchestra. I’ve gotten to be part of that, with my Portrait in Seven Shades and The Presidential Suite, both commissioned by the Lincoln Center. The topics were my own, but the opportunity was given to me by them.
The more that I write for the big band, the more I loved it and the less I resisted it. It’s now become a voice for me, so it attracts me in many ways. I now teach composition for big band at BMI, and there’s a BMI Jazz Composer’s Workshop, so the big band has now become an important part of my development and creativity and even my career, even though I didn’t initially feel it at the time.
YOU SAID THAT YOU GET TO PICK THE TOPICS FOR YOUR COMMISSIONS. WHAT GAVE YOU THE MOTIVATION FOR THE GRAMMY WINNING PRESIDENTIAL SUITE, AND THE INCLUSION OF SPEECHES BY THE LIKES OF FDR, JKF, CHURCHILL, NELSON MANDELA, LBJ AND RONALD REAGAN?
I was looking for something to both inspire me and give me a challenge. Awhile back, someone told me “Don’t run away from your country’s mythology; you should embrace it.” I didn’t at first understand what he said; was he talking about Greek mythology? No, it was the story of who I am and where I’m from and what made you the person that you are.
For me, it comes back to my family, and that largely involves my parents’ civil rights activities in the 1960s and 70s, being so open to people and inviting them to our home, and being involved in civil rights organizations.
My first thought on The Presidential Suite was to have the political speeches based on human rights, civil rights and freedom. I found them very inspiring .
I decided to transcribe speeches and use those actual notes from the pitches of the speeches as the themes for the concerto, and the ones that moved me the most were the ones based on freedom, which is how I got the idea for the suite.
THE SMART THING YOU DID WAS TO FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE SIDE OF POLITICS. IT COULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO HAVE SPEECHES DENIGRATING SOMEONE ELSE. YOU, AS THE SONG SAYS, ACCENTUATED THE POSITIVE.
There are of course a lot of things that I feel politically and would like to say, but I’ve never been a fan of using my music or social media, successes and awards to talk about things like that. For me it’s separate from that. I love talking about politics, I just don’t want to tie it into with my art.
A lot of people do use opportunities to express how they feel or how to change things politically. I’ve never felt like that, so the Presidential Suite is not a political statement per se. But, I hope people will listen to the speeches and be moved by the sentiment behind them and choose to make decisions to make our lives and this world a better place.
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“There are musicians today that are trying new things, and I really love that. Jazz needs that”
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HOW DID YOU COME ACROSS THESE SPECIFIC SPEECHES?
Most of it was researched, and I just discovered speeches that I didn’t know before. I grew up aware of (John) Kennedy and LBJ because I was just starting to have a memory of events, like when Kennedy was shot.
I was only 3, but I remember my father crying and reading the newspaper, so that gave me a strong feeling about Kennedy.
Growing up with my parents, we were quite liberal, and while I’m not the biggest fan of (Ronald) Reagan’s politics, he was such a beautiful speaker that there were several speeches that he made that really moved me, just because of the nature of them. Like the one with the Challenger or the Berlin Wall. He had a vibe, and could make you feel like he believed it what he was saying.
HE ALSO SPOKE ABOUT FREEDOM DURING THE DAYS OF POLAND AND SOLIDARITY
And that famous quote to Grobachev and “Tear down this wall.” So he really fit into the theme. But I didn’t know about (Burmese diplomat) Su Kyi’s piece that I used, so it was also a great education for me during the research.
YOU’VE BEEN IN SOME OF THE GREATES BIG BANDS OF THE MODERN AGE. LET’S GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON SOME OF THEM AND THEIR LEADERS.
LET’S START WITH DON ELLIS, WHO SEEMS TO BE FORGOTTEN THESE DAYS
Don had so much energy. He was in his late 40s when I joined the band and he was in his prime. He was such a great composer, but I really liked his fire. He’d just look at you and you could feel this spark of something. 1543
You’d see somebody that was so serious about what they do, and still bring a lot of fun to it; he was very theatrical. His music was challenging and difficult; it came at a time where I was just starting to get comfortable improvising in 4/4 time and here I was in 7 or 5, things like that. (laughs)
At that time, when I was 17, I was still more interested in straightahead swinging, so this opened me up to other types of big band writing. It was wild!
HOW ABOUT ANOTHER GREAT BUT UNDERAPPRECIATED BAND, THE TOSHIKO AKIYOSHI-LEW TABACKIN BIG BAND?
They were so inspiring! When I first heard them I was 15 and I came to hear them in concert. Our high school band was in these big band competitions, so we’d get a chance to see bands like hers at festivals. Toshiko was very hot and popular then, having won some Grammys. And Lew Tabackin was just so swinging and so incredible with all of his background with Sonny Rollins and all that you could hear in his playing. I just sat there with my jaw hitting the ground.
Toshiko’s music was so interesting and exotic, yet traditional at the same time. She found her own voice in music and I found that very inspiring.
SPEAKING OF TRADITION, YOU ALSO SPENT SOME TIME WITH ELLINGTON ALUMNUS LOUIS BELLSON
First of all, here’s a guy who was a direct connection to Duke Ellington, and how often do you play with people that were in Duke’s band? In Bellson’s band there were still guys like Cat Anderson who had a connection to that band.
Yet Louis had this modern energy. It was all about swing and all about the momentum and moving forward, and he did it with a smile.
I was very young at 17, but was surrounded by these incredible local LA musicians, like Pete Christlieb (who was my idol), Bobby Shew, Blue Mitchell.
And Louis may have been the nicest guy I have ever met. I don’t think I ever heard a negative word come out of his mouth.
WHAT DID YOU DO WITH QUINCY JONES?
This was during the 70s and he had already become a legendary pop producer. I had auditioned for the band and got the gig to tour with him for five weeks, backing up The Brothers Johnson and doing stuff from his Walk in Space, which I loved. That had some swinging stuff.
I only did the band for two weeks. They found out I was only 16, and they told me they couldn’t hire me unless they had a tutor or guardian.
So, Quincy said, “Hey, man. Why don’t I just adopt him for this tour?” So, I almost technically became Quincy Jones’ son for two weeks!
YOU SPENT A LONG TIME WITH THE MEL LEWIS ORCHESTRA
I joined the band after Thad Jones had left, but it was still largely based on his music from the Monday nights at the Vanguard.
It was one of the single most important associations I have ever done. I was sitting between Joe Lovano and Dick Oatts for nine years, and hearing all of this incredible music by Thad Jones played by the drummer that had the greatest feel. It informed me in my early writing; when I do arranging today I keep going back to his chords and how he found momentum.
So, one of the biggest influences on me as a musician was the experience sitting with that band.
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“For example, in the case of Miles Davis, he was searching all the time, so his music always comes out as totally authentic. I judge more on authenticity and creativity rather than on a specific style”
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YOU GREW UP AS A MUSICIAN DURING THE LAST GENERATION THAT DIDN’T HAVE ROCK AND ROLL AS A PULSE OF THEIR CHILDHOOD. THEREFORE, WHEN YOU HEAR YOUNGER ARTISTS, CAN YOU HEAR A DIFFERENT SOUND OR PULSE TO THEIR PLAYING SINCE THEY’VE GROWN UP WITH ROCK, FUNK, ETC?
Yes. Wynton (Marsalis) and I talk about this a lot, as we both grew up during the fusion days in the early 70s. You had John McLaughlin, Chick Corea and Weather Report.
I kind of ran away from that. I always felt that I just wanted to hear Sonny Rollins and swing, ‘Trane and Miles and all that. I felt narrow minded, I have to say that, and my musical mind is much more open now.
Regardless of whether it is a feel or groove, if it’s got a rock or swing beat or only one chord or a zillion chords, that’s not the thing that will measure whether the music is successful or good.
I measure how engaging the music is, and how creative the musicians are. How the musicians improvise and put all of the elements together of different types of music.
For me, I’d rather listen to music that is “good” as well as the style, as opposed to when I was younger and only cared about the style of music, whether or not it was great.
I kind of slept on Wayne Shorter’s Native Dancer record when it first came out, which I listen to a lot now. It’s so deep and beautiful, and can be very moving.
There are musicians today that are trying new things, and I really love that. Jazz needs that.
People like Robert Glasper, who are finding different ways of expressing themselves by engaging other elements and putting them into their music. I think that is important, and just to say that I haven’t may be fused certain things into my music, I certainly have infused a lot of other things into it, things like rap, Eastern European or tango which are now in my music.
There are two ways to do it; you either are searching for something that is different, regardless of whether you feel it, in which case it’s not authentic. You may be successful to some degree because you found a new concept. The other way is that for me, if it comes out of your natural experiences, your life and who you are, and discover these new directions, I think that being more authentic is a stronger artistic statement.
For example, in the case of Miles Davis, he was searching all the time, so his music always comes out as totally authentic. I judge more on authenticity and creativity rather than on a specific style.
THAT ATTITUDE COMES OUT IN YOUR SMALL GROUP PROJECTS, LIKE THE MANCINI PROJECT OR YOUR TRIBUTE TO HERBIE NICHOLS. YOU USE THESE ALBUMS AS VEHICLES TO EXPRESS WHO YOU ARE.
That’s right. For example, this week we’re giving concerts at JALC based on nursery songs! I did an arrangement of “The Muffin Man” which is an 8 bar song on a G scale, but I made a whole piece out of it. It doesn’t matter what the subject is, you can still make music out of it.
YOU’VE SPENT A NUMBER OF YEARS WITH MARSALIS AND THE JALC ORCHESTRA. WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE LEGACY 25 YEARS FROM NOW OF THE JALC AND HE HIMSELF?
I ASK THIS BECAUSE WHEN HE FIRST HIT THE SCENE, HE WAS BOTH A CLASSICAL AND JAZZ PLAYER, BRINGING BACK “CLASSIC” JAZZ.
A lot of people have hopes that someone will be the person they want him to be. When Wynton came out with his first record, he seemed to be quite modern and pushed the envelope a little bit, finding new ways of playing straight-ahead jazz. A lot of people saw him as the answer for music going in that direction.
That’s a lot of pressure to put on someone. Wynton is going to be the person who he is. If he were someone that were much less famous, and people didn’t have high hopes for him being “the savior of jazz” and he decided to do what he’s currently doing, we wouldn’t be as critical of him.
He’s doing these projects with JALC which seem to be more traditional, and he gets a lot of criticism for doing that, because of what he had previously established with his small groups. People like Bob Brookmeyer really hated JALC, calling him “the anti-Christ of music.”
To say that Wynton is less or more “valid” than Brookmeyer…what is “validity” anyway? Wynton does what he believes in, and it’s important what he’s doing.
People think that all we do is play Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong, but we play a lot of our own music and arrangements.
JALC is like the New York Philharmonic. They play Mozart and Beethoven as well as newer pieces and new composers. There’s a place for the history; it’s important that people hear the continuum of music’s history. It has to be preserved and heard, so what he’s doing is very important.
I think that his legacy will be bigger than people’s own prejudice of JALC.
THERE’S NO OTHER VEHICLE FOR PIECES LIKE YOUR PRESIDENTIAL SUITE
Oh, yeah, there are musicians in the band who are doing similar suites of music. We
We’ve got a piece called “Pollock” based on the art of Jackson Pollock. It’s a free jazz piece, about as far out as you can go! There’s also “Dali” which is a rock thing in 13/8, for people who say we don’t do free music or do rock rhythms.
So, people make comments about JALC without really knowing what we do. In fact, a lot of people will come to our concerts and be surprised by what they hear.
WHEN ARE YOU NEXT COMING TO SO CAL?
Once my new record comes out, I’ll be booking some gigs. I’m coming to Santa Barbara through the Modern Art Museum for a two week residency. I’ll be staying there for a workshop the first week of July based on composition, and then we’ll perform the pieces. It will be really interesting.
One thing about this new record, since we’ve been talking about small and big bands; this latest record, after my last larger ensembles, is my opportunity to show people my small band side and how I interact with other people. I feel really good about it; there’s some real good stretching out.
WHICH IS WHAT YOU DO, IN ANY SETTING!
IT’S ENCOURAGING TO HEAR AN ARTIST FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE OF NOT ONLY MUSIC, BUT OF POLITICAL SITUATIONS. IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THE JALC WITH NASH DELIVERING EITHER A LYRICAL SOLO OR LEADING THE BAND THROUGH ONE OF HIS RICH COMPOSITIONS, TRY CATCHING HIM DURING HIS STINT IN SANTA BARBARA.
THE VOICES OF MANY GENERATIONS OF SWINGING ARTISTS SPEAK THROUGH THIS SAGE, AND HOPEFULLY WITH MORE ON THE HORIZON.