BACK IN THE 80S, DAVID MURRAY WAS THE POSTER CHILD FOR THE NEW FORCE OF LEFT OF CENTER ARTISTS THAT WERE CONSIDERED THE FUTURE OF JAZZ. ALONG WITH ARTHUR BLYTHE, CHICO FREEMAN, LESTER BOWIE AND HENRY THREADGILL, MURRAY WAS ON THE VANGUARD OF WHAT WAS NEW AND EXCITING.
TOGETHER WITH HAMIET BLUIETT, OLIVER LAKE AND JULIUS HEMPHILL, MURRAY FORMED THE LEGENDARY WORLD SAXOPHONE QUARTET WHICH SET THE WORLD ABLAZE WITH IT’S EXPLORATIVE ALBUMS OF BOTH ORIGINAL MUSIC AND INTERPRETATIONS OF SOUNDS RANGING FROM R&B TO ELLINGTON.
ON HIS OWN, HE RECORDED ALBUMS RANGING FROM EXPLOSIVE BIG BANDS TO QUARTETS AND RICHLY TEXTURED OCTETS, WITH “MING” BEING THE POSSIBLE HIGH WATER MARK.
AT THE HEIGHT OF HIS POPULARITY IN THE STATES, HAVING RECORDED WITH BANDS INCLUDING THE GRATEFUL DEAD, MURRAY LEFT THE US TO RE-LOCATE TO FRANCE. SINCE THEN, THE STATE OF THE AMERICAN TENOR SAX HAS NOT BEEN THE SAME, WITH HIS VACUUM STILL NOT YET BEING FILLED.
THE CHANGE IN HIS IDENTITY DIDN’T PHASE THE ARTIST, AS HE EXPLAINS TO US IN THIS RECENT INTERVIEW. HE’S STILL ACTIVE, WITH HIS LATEST COLLABORATION (“PERFECTION”) WITH GERI ALLEN AND TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON BEING ONE OF HIS BEST.
YOU DID A MAJOR CAREER CHANGE WHEN YOU MOVED TO FRANCE A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS OF THAT?
I had already accomplished many things, and was at the height of my career; I just continued my career from there. I’ve always travelled all over the world. When I went to Paris it was a wonderful time. I recorded in Africa, in Cuba, and in many parts of the world. It gave me the ability to explore many options like the Gwo Ka Masters from Guadaloupe. We did several albums, one with Pharoah Sanders.
I’ve also been able to write two operas; one for Alexander Pushkin with strings and for actors. Avery Brooks did the role of Pushkin. I did projects for Red Bull and the Masked Poets. We made a big show out of that and packed many places. In Paris we had lines around the corner. It was sold out.
We did Women’s Songs of Africa. It was a great show. With my big band we did a tribute to Ellington; the obscure works by Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn. I collaborated with James Newton on it.
Plus, I went to France and raised two beautiful children! I went to France, fell in love and followed my heart.
I live in Harlem, I live in Paris, and I live in Portugal now.
YOU’RE LATEST PROJECT WITH TERRI LYNE CARRINGTON AND GERI ALLEN (PERFECTION) IS A WELCOME REUNION WITH SOME OLD COMPATRIOTS. HOW DID YOU GET THIS ONE TOGETHER?
Back in the Winterjazz Festival a couple of years ago, we did a couple of projects. One was with (poet) Saul Williams and my quartet which had Nasheet Waits. I also did a revival of the Clarinet Summit. That had Don Byron, David Krakauer and Hamiet Bluiett and myself. Originally it had John Carter, Alvin Batiste, they contacted me for bass clarinet and then we got Jimmy Hamilton. We did some albums like that. We wanted to do an extension of that idea, but everyone in the group had passed on. I had an opportunity to make that group again.
At the same time during that Winterfest I got the idea to bring Terri Lyne Carrington and Geri Allen to play with me. I had played with Geri Allen and Richard Davis once at the Vanguard and enjoyed playing together with her then and different situations afterwards. I had worked at Town Hall with Carrington, so we decided to put this together and make a co-op group out of it.
It was great, because the last co-op group I was in lasted for 40 years, The World Saxophone Quartet. This would have been our 40th year, we no longer exist but everything has to come to an end. So, this is my “new” co-op group
I’ve also started a new group called David Murray and Class Struggle, with my son Mingus on guitar. It’s interesting to have some young people in the band. You’ll hear about this band soon; we’ll be playing at the Vanguard in April.
ANY WEST COAST GIGS COMING UP?
My quartet is trying to come around in early 2017, and the trio looks strong enough to be able to come around soon.
YOU PLAY IN ALL TYPES OF GROUPS. DO YOU SEE YOURSELF AS A “MUSICIAN” MORE THAN A “JAZZ MUSICIAN” OR “TENOR SAX PLAYER”?
Music is something that you shouldn’t pigeonhole. If you have the skills, or develop the skills for a big band, you should follow that. Then, the more forms and compositions that you fulfill, the better you get. I’ve been doing big bands since 1978; I’m pretty adept at writing for big bands. I’ve also done octets and shifted it around. We did Nat King Cole in Espanol; it wasn’t quite an octet, but it ended up being eight people and the music was different.
Sometimes it’s just the arranging skills and the orchestration skills. Improvisation is the beginning of my story with the tenor sax, but there are also other things, like that I write for theatre. I’m coming back to New York because I’d like to pursue that career as well. Music is music, so I try not to limit myself.
ONE TIME YOU TOLD ME THAT MUSIC IS LIKE CHURCH, IN THAT IT BRINGS DIVERSE PEOPLE TOGETHER.
Music is like that, and jazz in particular is one of the most ecumenical types of music on the planet because we let everybody into our church!
IN RETROSPECT, HOW DO YOU THINK THE WORLD SAXOPHONE QUARTET IMPACTED MJSIC?
I think we revolutionized things. Having four members that were quite different in the way that they played. Julius Hemphill was a large factor in the WSQ: we had to go into a different direction when we lost him. We tried many people who also made the group sound different like James Spaulding, Arthur Blythe and James Carter. We had a lot of other people.
Hamiet Bluiett is one of the world’s greatest baritone saxophone players, if not THE premier player. He is a master of his instrument and a wonderful composer. Who knows if someone had the notion to make some institution of the WSQ we could go out again. But, at this juncture, I think that we may have hit a point where we go into different directions. Everyone is doing fine on their own. At certain times we need each other, but right now we’re doing fine, things are positive and everyone’s healthy.
ANOTHER IDENTITY OF YOURS WAS THE LABEL YOU WERE WITH FOR MANY YEARS, BLACK SAINT.
Certain companies have been important in my career. That’s because they give you opportunities to develop. When you take different groups on the road for 3-4 weeks, like my octet, you come back into a club, play the club and then go into the studio and make a recording. That to me has always been the formula to making a good record.
To get a band that actually knows the music, plays together and change it every night, the music becomes a growing organism. Then, to have an opportunity to record; Black Saint and DIW, the Japanese label I did 30 albums with…all of these companies were very important in the development of my career. And other people’s careers!1342
Sometimes a label might choose a particular face to be the poster child of their company, and I was that several times. That can be a beautiful thing, because that way you can invite your friends and people you like to play with to come in as leaders and do their own records too. It’s not just about me; it’s about the whole jazz community.
YOU, CHICO FREEMAN, HENRY THREADGILL AND ARTHUR BLYTHE ALL CAME UP AROUND THE SAME TIME AND WERE SEEN AS A SINGLE IDENTITY.
Well, that’s important and it’s a great thing. What that means is that those of us who survived were able to go on into a positive way a whole world for ourselves. Each one of those people, and you have to put Ornette Coleman in there, created a whole community of people that knew what they were doing.
Sometimes you have to spread out to spread the music over the world. Fortunately I was able to spread my music all over Europe and Africa. That’s a real important thing for me to have done that in my life; to be able to go to different countries like Senegal and South Africa that normally wouldn’t have jazz. It’s really something to go into Mali and help develop projects.
I’ve been working with 3D Family, which is an organization that the mother of my children, Valier Malot, is the head of. She handles great acts from Mali like Salif Keita, Amadou and Mariam. People like that.
My family is in the business of music; we’re all working together to make something happen.
DO YOU THINK YOUR CHURCH BACKGROUND HAS INFLUENCED YOU TO BE “SPREADING THE WORD” LIKE AN EVANGELIST?
I grew up in The Church of God in Christ. My mother was very important in my development; she played piano and my father played guitar. In the music of the church, my brother Donald is the musical director for several churches in Fresno, California. He’s carrying on the tradition of my mother. Music is very important in our family and it helped me to develop; you can hear it in my playing.
HOW DID IT AFFECT YOU AS A MAN?
My brother Reuben and I always used to ask my father “How come we have to come to church all the time?” He said, “First, the band is the band and the church isn’t going to start without the band. Second, I want you to go in order to know the difference between right and wrong.”
WHAT WAS THE NAT COLE PROJECT ABOUT?
That took several trips to Cuba. At the time, you couldn’t go to Cuba from New York. I was able to go via Air France straight to Cuba from Paris. Our government hadn’t gotten around to opening up until now, but with things getting better we’ll get an opportunity to see what great musicians are down there and they’ll be able to have the opportunity to spread their wings.
There are several people from Cuba that I helped come to New York. I’ve had my hands in a number of things including young Cuban musicians’ careers and lives.
WHAT’S THE BIGGEST THING YOU TRY TO TEACH YOUNGER MUSICIANS?
Individuality. The people we spoke about before, each of them developed their own path. They made their own world of music.
Being able to copy people is not really that difficult. Trying to be original; that’s what is difficult. But at the same time, once you become an individual thinker or person you are a better person. You’ve created your own identity.
I have a friend, Craig Harris, who is a very creative musician. A great trombone player, and he’s got a song that I really like, called “Step Into My World.” When you hear that song, he makes you feel like he’s created his own world.
I think all of us that get a chance to survive these life issues and can put it into our music, we can expand our world to truth. Like Alice Coltrane, she put a whole universe of sound around John Coltrane. Anyone who can orchestrate like that, or like Benny Carter or Jimmy Heath. To get to a level of writing or arranging takes years, but that’s the best.
I was just at the Kennedy Center for the Jazz Masters and was allowed to be with Jimmy Heath, Archie Shepp and Pharoah Sanders. We all went to a concert together of the music of Benny Carter played by the Smithsonian Institute Masterworks Orchestra. It was quite an event to hear all of his music at one time. They also did music by Dave Baker who recently passed away. He was instrumental in helping me advance. I’ve had people who’ve helped me to become who I am, and if I can pass that on to others, it’s something good to do. I teach in my flat. I teach them that there’s more than replicating the notes. They need to open up their sound, as that is what makes you an individual. That is your stamp. The notes will come.
WHAT GOT YOU INTO DOING OPERA?
It was an opportunity to create a hero for people, black people in particular, because most people don’t know that Alexander Pushkin was part black. He was a voice of poetry in a certain period in Russian history. He was quite a dapper guy, and people listened to him. My idea was to expose African Americans to another hero that they can celebrate who was one of their own who accomplished something in another country.
Pushkin himself was searching for his blackness; he couldn’t understand why his great grandfather who came over as a slave (from Cameroon) and where this blackness in him came from. He expressed it in his poetry, so we did an opera. We did it in several languages; in French, in Russian, English and Bantu.
I discovered how to write with lyrics and how to write straight from Russian. A lot of projects I did in Europe I tried to get here. I tried hard to bring it to The Lincoln Center and a couple other places by sending out a lot of media and videos. But, you know, America, when it comes to music coming into America that is jazz based, is a very closed society. It exports, but it doesn’t bring things in that could be quite interesting, other than classical music.
As a person who has developed these kind of things I think we open up a little bit. I also did an opera called The Sisyphus Syndrome with Amiri Baraka. He had revolutionary prose and poetry set to music and a gospel choir. That was interesting too, it was something we recorded and did several concerts. In the middle of remixing the album the whole record industry went belly up. That material hasn’t had a chance to come out, but at some point I’m sure it will. But, the current restructuring of the record industry has put a stop to it.
IS THAT WHAT BROUGHT YOU BACK TO LIVE, AT LEAST PART TIME, IN THE STATES?
I’m back here in America because people thought I was just twiddling my thumbs for the last 20 years, but, no, I’ve been moving; I’ve been as active as I always had. I’ve been doing music. I was born into it; it’s what I do.
IT’S YOUR IDENTITY
I’m still breathing, and it’s what I do.
ALL OF MURRAY’S PROJECTS, BE THEY THE WORLD SAXOPHONE QUARTET, OPERA, HIS OWN SMALL AND BIG BANDS, LATIN MUSIC OR HIS LATEST TRIO ALBUM WITH ALL STARS ALLEN AND CARRINGTON, ARE PART OF HIS IDENTITY. HE’S NOT A ‘JAZZ MUSICIAN’ AS MUCH AS A ‘MUSICIAN’, ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NEW VENUES OF STIMULATION. NOW CONSIDERED ONE OF THE ‘ELDER STATESMEN’ OF JAZZ, MURRAY IS ONE OF THE FEW THAT KEEPS HIS EARS AND MIND OPEN, ALWAYS SEARCHING FOR A NEW PROJECT AND COLLECTION OF IDEAS. THE SAXOPHONE IS HIS INSTRUMENT, NOT HIS IDENTITY.
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