ERIC JOHNSON IS A HOUSEHOLD NAME AMONG ROCK ENTHUSIASTS. HE’S ONE OF THE FEW GUITARISTS WHO’S MADE A LIVING PERFORMING THAT RARE GENRE OF ‘ROCK INSTRUMENTALS,’ WITH HIS SONG “CLIFFS OF DOVER” A BONA FIDE HIT. RECENTLY, KEEPING WITH THE TRADITION OF GUITARISTS, HE HE RELEASED A DUO GUITAR SUMMIT MEETING WITH JAZZ LEGEND MIKE STERN, THE RESULT BEING “ECLECTIC” AN ALBUM THAT IS SATISFYING TO 6 STRING LOVERS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE AND TRACKS. HIS TOUR WITH STERN IS PACKING THE HOUSES WITH BOTH MUSIC FANS AND MUSIC .
WE RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH ERIC JOHNSON, JUST AS HE WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS TOUR WITH STERN. HIS VIEW DIET AND PHILOSOPHY ARE ARE AS ENCOURAGING AND ECLECTIC AS HIS BALANCING ACT WITH MUSIC ITSELF.
HOW DID YOUR FAMILY MUSICALLY INFLUENCE YOU?
My dad was really into music. I remember just being a little kid and hearing all of this music that my dad loved. So I listened to all of his records and eventually got my own record player when I was 5 years old so I could play all sorts of music. He was just a real music lover, so that sort of really influenced me when I was small. And then I took some piano lessons when I was a kid; kind of got into classical music and stuff.
My dad would just whistle all of the time; if there was a record going on he’d be whistling along or singing along with them. I just saw at a young age how much music effected him and made him fill good and joyful and smile all the time. So, I thought, “Wow; there must be something to this.”
YOUR FAMILY WAS IN AFRICA FOR AWHILE. WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?
One of my sisters married a gentleman from Cape Town. He’s passed away, but she still lives there. At the time I visited her she was living then with her husband and we stayed with her for a few months to visit national parks and stuff.
WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP IN AUSTIN, WHICH GUITARISTS DID YOU FIRST LIKE?
The first guy I really got into was Nokie Edwards of The Ventures, then I really got into Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton, which lead me to Hendrix and Wes Montgomery. From there I went to Django Reinhardt, John McLaughlin, Bill Connors and Charlie Christian, Ralph Towner. All those guys.
YOU ACTUALLY STARTED OUT IN A JAZZ ROCK FUSION BAND
When Miles did that On The Corner and Bitches Brew material, and then McLaughlin, Weather Report and Chick Corea with Return to Forever with Bill Connors I really got off into that, so I spent most of the 70s doing that kind of stuff.
GUITARISTS TEND TO BE UNIQUE IN MUSIC. YOU GET A SAXOPHONIST, AND HE JUST WORKS ON HIS TONE WHILE HAVING ONLY THE REED AS HIS VARIABLE IN CREATING A SOUND> THE THING THAT I FIND INTERESTING ABOUT GUITARISTS IS THAT THEY ARE ALWAYS PLAYING WITH THEIR SOUNDS WITH ALL SORTS OF BUTTONS AND PEDALS. WHY IS THAT?
I know what you mean, and maybe it’s a deterrent. I’ve been thinking about that lately. I’ve been thinking “You know, I wish… I’d like to get the courage to just play through an amp with my guitar. Maybe with one pedal. It would be like going back to zero point and taking another spoke out on the wheel instead of the same one. It’s just about being electric; you can do so many things to the guitar with the pedals turning it into this sound or that sound. It’s kind of attractive that you can mess with it so much. But it’s kind of a double edged sword because the more complicated it gets, the more you kind of start destroying that natural sound and impact that the guitar has.
WHEN DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HAD YOUR OWN SOUND. CAN AN ELECTRIC GUITARIST DEVELOP HIS OWN SOUND, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL OF THESE KNOBS?
Excellent question. I think most of the sound comes from the way you pick and the way that you finger the strings and the way that you mute the strings that you’re not playing. I’ve had people tell me that they can tell who the guitarist is no matter what gear they use. The gear is the facilitator, but it’s not the main part. It’s really in your intention and your mind set and the way that you think. It’s also in your fingering position and your picking. That’s most of it.
But I think it also depends. If you want to try to make the guitar do more than its natural sound ; in other words, if I want it to be more sustained then you have to used some kind of pedal to make it sing more.
YOU ARE ALSO ONE OF THE FEW GUITARIST THAT WENT BACK TO PERFORMING ROCK INSTRUMENTALS. HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?
I’ve always enjoyed playing instrumentals and I’ve always done them. Early in my career it was considered a kind of deficit and whenever I worked with people they’d always say, “We need to write lyrics for these songs” which was ironic, because the thing that ended up being the best accelerator in my career was what everyone thought wouldn’t pan out.
It also is important as to what your strong point is. My strong point is not being any kind of a great vocalist (laughs).
I HAVE A THEORY ABOUT GUITARISTS. IT’S LIKE THE STORY OF THE 5 BLIND MEN FEELING AN ELEPHANT AND DESCRIBING DIFFERENT PARTS OF IT, THE TUSK, THE FEET, THE TAIL, ETC. BUT THEY ARE ALL CORRECT, JUST DESCRIBING DIFFERENT PARTS. DO YOU THINK THAT ROCK AND JAZZ GUITARISTS ARE SIMPLY USING A DIFFERENT MEANS TO COMMUNICATE THE SAME MESSAGE?
I think the older you get, or at some point in your career, you just want to keep the game interesting, you want to keep dilating and keep growing. So, you’re always looking for ways to add color or harmony or to “expand your corral,” you know.
LOOKING BACK, DO YOU THINK “ CLIFFS OF DOVER” WAS A BLESSING OR A CURSE IN YOUR CAREER?
I would never say that it was a curse. There’s a thing where you kind of become synonymous with it, and people expect you to play it all of the time. That part may not be the most “go to” thing you want to do, but then again, it’s a five minute song, and if it makes people happy I think that I can take time out of the set to play it for them. To keep the same exhilaration and passion for it, that’s tough after five million times.
But, Geez, ya know, it would be the same as if you lived in a two bedroom house and you’re complaining, “Man, I wish I had a better house.” Then you stop in your tracks and go “Wait a second; I’ve got a roof over my head. I’ve got a place to go, I’ve got food to eat.” It’s all relative; it opened up a lot of doors for me, so I’ve gotten many many more blessings from it that I should show gratitude for than “Oh, I’ve got to play it for five minutes.”
GUITARISTS SEEM TO HAVE THIS BOND AMONGST THEMSELVES WHERE YOU LOVE TO DO “SUMMIT MEETING” ALBUMS ALL THE TIME MORE THAN ANY OTHER MUSICIAN. WHAT IS IT ABOUT YOU GUYS?
I really enjoy the challenge. I really have enjoyed playing with Mike (Stern). I mean, he’s coming form a different place, so I’m learning a lot by playing with him. He’s a very schooled player and very deep harmonically. It’s Nice; it kind of shakes your tree a little bit and puts you into a place where you can’t go to sleep at the wheel! You have to see where the music leads you; it’s challenging, and if it’s musical at the same time and there’s an understanding and appreciation from each side, then you’re creating good music while you’re doing that. If it’s just a showdown it’s not as much fun.
IS THERE A KIND OF “GENTLEMAN’S AGREEMENT” AMONG GUITARISTS THAT YOU’RE TOGETHER TO HAVE FUN AND NOT CUT THE OTHER ONE DOWN? OR CAN IT BE A SLUGFEST TO SEE WHO HAS THE BIGGEST CHOPS?
Well, a lot of times that does happen; a lot of people are comparing and always judging. They’re either doing that to themselves and others or whatever. But, we always want to compartmentalize people. There’s something about the human brain that always wants to do that. It’s frustrating to hear “Somebody’s doing something that you can’t do” or “You don’t do it as well as they do” and “You do something they don’t do.”
But there has to become a bigger understanding of “Look, we’ve all spent our hours working on something that has brought into focus our strengths and our forte’s that are different than somebody else’s. You get to a place where you just realize that, then you can kind of let it go and laugh about it. You just then use those things of yours to make the best music that you can, and then there doesn’t have to be a competition.
DID YOU FIRST PLAY WITH MIKE STERN ON HIS “BIG NEIGHBORHOOD” ALBUM, OR WAS THERE SOMETHING BEFORE?
No, that was it. I had heard him before with Miles (Davis), but I had never played with him.
WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU FIRST WENT INTO THE STUDIO WITH HIM?
Well, he’s a jazz player, but he’s got this kind of soulful, kind of bluesy, kind of lyrical side to him that makes him unique, I think. I also didn’t realize that he was such a prolific songwriter. That was cool. Some of the songs he’s written…anyone could do them. Some of the ballads he’s written, you could get someone to write lyrics for them and it could be this incredible pop tune. At least a jazz pop tune; he’s got these well structured and very well written compositions. That’s an interesting side of him.
And that slides into his playing; he’s always looking into that musical picture of the music itself. That attracted me.
ON THIS TOUR, ARE YOU WITH MORE OF A ROCK BAND OR A JAZZ BAND?
It’s kind of a combination. On this tour Anton Fig and Chris Maresh, and those guys are well equipped to play anything, really.
WHAT HIT YOU ABOUT THE RECORD YOU GUYS DID WHEN YOU LISTENED TO IT AFTERWARDS?
I think it’s cool; it’s a very honest records. I mean, we didn’t spend a lot of time “fixing” stuff. We did as little fixing and overdubbing as we thought necessary. We left in a lot of stuff. We basically played it all “live” in the studio in one room. So, if I were to be really analytical, I’d say, “Ah, I should have replayed that solo.” But there’s always two sides to that.
Yeah, I might replay the solo and I might get it better, but it might not be as interesting to listen to. But what we were trying to do was kind of cool!
HOW IS THE MUSIC IN CONCERT?
It’s cool; it’s really open and we’re a very improvisational band. It’s a fun thing for a musician to do ‘cause it’s not real structured like a pop gig where we kind of play a lot of the same stuff. It’s way open.
THIS IS INTERESTING FOR YOU TO SAY, BECAUSE AT ONE TIME YOU HAD THE REPUTATION OF BEING A PERFECTIONIST. IS THAT DUE TO MATURITY, OR BECAUSE YOU’RE WITH STERN WHO JUST SAYS “LET’S JUST GET IT DONE”?
Well, I started doing that about a year ago. I started making that switch, so it was kind of well timed to do this thing with Mike and get more into that live spontaneity thing. I started getting bored with the old way. One thing that happened at the same time was that records don’t sell like they used to, so you don’t have this huge budget where you can just sit around for six months or a year and re-do stuff forever. So there’s a good side to that!
You gotta bring it into the moment, ya know? And then, there was also that I was listening to some of the stuff that I was doing on “Bloom” and I realized “Hey, I wanna bring a little more soul and spontaneity into my playing” and I realized that the way to get that was to go with that initial performance intact. So, I started doing experiments with that in the studio; I started realizing that spontaneity had a lot more value than I had been giving it. I just wanted to go that way.
And I think that some people put “perfectionism” or whatever down. I don’t like using that word because it’s such a dangerous word in a way. But, they put reaching for that high bar down and I don’t agree with that. You look at everybody; artists do it, athletes do it; musicians do it. You look at Olympic athletes; it’s just how you strive for something. I learned that the way NOT to strive for something is to just sit there and do something over and over. I believe in bringing it into the moment; giving it what you’ve got, and make it explode like “Wow! This is Great!” And touch people with it.
Whatever that high bar that you’re looking for is, you gotta have it with you when you’re in the moment. That’s where you put it. It’s just a placement of yourself that the striving has.
And no one can ever tell me that Wes Montgomery wasn’t a perfectionist. He’d sit there and practice for hours and hours, and then he’d go into the studio and cut the record in three days.
I PLAY THE SAX, AND I CAN’T BELIEVE HOW MUCH PRACTICE IT TAKES JUST TO SOUND TERRIBLE.
I can tell you all about that! (laughs)
ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO RECORD LIVE?
We’re talking about doing another record. On this one we’ll have all new songs on it instead of reworking some older ones. On the first record, we got offered to do it so fast that we didn’t have enough time to write a bunch of intricate things. Only about half of it is new. But this next one will have us doing all new music.
So, we’re hoping that sometime this year we’ll hit the studio and make another record.
ANY OTHER MUSICAL GOALS?
Oh, I’d love to play with tons of people. Dennis Chambers is great. Stevie Wonder. Jeff Beck. Allison Krauss.
YOU STILL LOOK HEALTHY AND THIN AFTER ALL THESE YEARS. ANY HEALTH SECRETS?
I’m definitely getting older, and people obviously say, “Go exercise.” But if you’re active in life, if you walk a lot or running around doing chores and picking stuff up and really doing something, you’re inadvertently getting exercise. I’m a big believer in just staying active. Being sedentary just isn’t good for you.
Diet is important as well. Personally, it’s important because what we eat is the fuel that feeds our cells.
When I was young it was so difficult to try to eat well. I did the best I could. It’s a bit easier now. I think people are more conscious of it now, and it’s pretty simple. There are all these diets out there; “Don’t Eat Grain Bread” and “Stay Away From Whatever.” But, I believe just eat as much fresh fruits and vegetables as you can, as it’s life giving. Live foods produce life-giving energy.
When I did experiments with myself, I’d say to myself, “Man, I feel so much better” with fresh foods. In the long term, what we eat translates into our cellular structure.
YOU DON’T DRINK ANY WINE EITHER?
No, I just take a little heroin every now and then. (laughs) JUST KIDDING!!
WITH SAFE NEEDLES, OF COURSE
(laughs) I delved into alcohol, but by the time I was 21 I had turned into a very boring person, so I stopped. I don’t have anything against anyone drinking a little wine, and I sure understand when people want to. People want a five minute break from life. To relax you might need something. But for me, it’s better if I just try to keep it simple.
DO YOU DRINK HERBAL TEAS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
Sometimes, but I really like Espresso! It helps me get to the end of the song before everybody else!
WHAT KEEPS YOU INSPIRED
The universal thing of human spirituality and self realization. To me it’s very interesting. You don’t have to look very deeply to realize that there’s a synchronicity between all teachings and religions. We all kind of operate on that surface where there is so much polarization. If you go just barely beneath the surface, you get to a lot less to argue about and quibble, or say “Let’s kill each other” about.
YOU LOOK INTO THE BIBLE, AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER ABOUT THESE THINGS SINCE ABRAHAM HAD HIS TWO KIDS ISAAC AND ISHMAEL.
I think it’s because we get religion confused with spirituality. We get the human mind and all of its rationalization, deductions and personal preferences, and we get confused with what spiritual truths there are about how the universe works and how to be a better person and being in that “sweet spot.”We kind of complicate and confuse everything a bit.
THERE IS AN ATTRACTIVE CONSISTENCY TO ERIC JOHNSON. WHETHER IT IS HIS DIET, HIS MUSIC OR HIS BELIEF SYSTEM, EVERYTHING POINTS TO A DESIRE TO GROW IN ORDER TO BECOME THE BEST HE CAN BE. THERE IS NO COMPARTMENTALIZING IN JOHNSON’S LIFE; INSTEAD, HE HAS A WHOLISTIC APPROACH TO EVERYTHING THAT HE TOUCHES, BE IT AN APPLE, A BOOK OR A FENDER. THIS IS ONE OF THE TRUE SIGNS OF A PILGRIM, AND WE SALUTE JOHNSON FOR HIS JOURNEY, AND PRAY THAT IT TAKES HIM TO THE CELESTIAL CITY.